Curse

eventhorizen · Jul 12, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Also Stalin didnt replace Hitler in Eastern Europe. There were plenty civil wars in many countries, I cant remember the name of the country (tsk) but I do know American and UK soldiers assisted one side in a civil war, because they were the weaker side, but supported the Allies, whilst the other stronger side supported the Axis.

Many, many countries considered themselves 'Germanic', Austria welcomed Hitler through its streets, a great procession and flowers and stuff. I believe Hitler was voted into power, and his people more or less accepted his every word, his every desire.
Hitler, believe it or not, was actually 'wanted' as a leader in many countries. His peoples love of him especially in the early years of war was almost uninimous.

Your lack of knowledge about what you claim is remarkable. You should not speak on a subject if all you have is stereotypes and preconceptions to go on.

Try using facts if you have any.

EmperorTippy · Jul 12, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

This might soundlike a troll but how did a thread about how good the european community was turn into Stalin whooping the beaten germans?

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 12, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I played with several people from the UK in EQ and they were always gentlemen. I think I will take your suggestion as well.
We have very civilized, well behaved people in the U.S. as well, they are just overshadowed by the cult of immaturity that passes for our overall gaming population.

I suspect if I spoke Korean they suffer similar issues. Lineage 2 was full of their version of immature brats.

eventhorizen · Jul 12, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

What you are providing aren't FACTs. Your so-called "FACT" post is nothing more than trying to glorifying Stalin's deed of mobbing up an already-beaten Germany and the German-controlled eastern europe (which was forced into the Soviet Union).

Lets try this again shall we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

The only reason you entered the war was because the Japanese kicked your arse.

The Soviet Union turned the tide of World War II by beating Hitlers operation Barbaroza. FACT.

A Few cunning manouvres, and being the first to undertsand the true power of the Aircraft carrier was all that saved you from losing the Pacific to Japan.
Battle of Midway. FACT.

German technology and science was years ahead of US technology. FACT.
(Sherman tank versus the Tiger...First jet engine and ballistic missiles)

Soviet and American Industry was able to outproduce German industry after Operation Barbaroza (the larget military deployment EVER) failed utterly. FACT.

American Industry would have been able to compete with a German Europe, enslaved Russia with death labour camps, and an Eastern Japanese Empire.
Highly unlikely.

American troops were raw, and were considered inferior to any troop when they finally did enter the war. FACT.

American troops without European, Oceanic, Indian and African (and more) allies would have been a match for Western and Eastern veterans hardened by the worst carnage the world had ever seen.
Not in your wildest dreams.

The Soviets got to Berlin first, the Allies only got there at all because someone in the German army forgot to blow up a bridge.

Those are facts. Are you saying they are not? A simple yes or no.

eventhorizen · Jul 12, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

This might soundlike a troll but how did a thread about how good the european community was turn into Stalin whooping the beaten germans?

It was Stalins commanders that beat the Germans in the first place.

Do Americans have absolutly no clue about History outside of their own country?

Have most of you even heard of the battle of Midway? Probably THE most important battle in Americas War. I bet youv never even heard of it.

American intelligence intercepted a code from the Japanese, however the Japanese only spoke of an attack and not its location. So the Americans sent out an uncoded signal saying that Midway (an Island off the west coast of the USA and home to a US naval base that effectivly was the last defence between the Japanese and the coastline of the USA) had run out of water.

The USA intercepted another signal, saying that the target was reported to be low on water, that a strike soon would be advised.

The Us admiral, I forget his name, stations a few remaining battleships and destroyers at Midway, and hides his aircraft carriers to the north, when the Japanese fleet is engaged the Japanese lose 3 of their 5 Aircraft carriers and a few other ships, to the USA's 0, without either force actually having made eye contact.
This was the moment in warfare when the power of the aircraft carrier was first realised in its true potential. The Japanese never recovered.

Im amazed you have no idea about the turning point of the war against Japan, amazed.

sino-soviet · Jul 13, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I believe it was Stalin who said "America provided the money, Britons the time, and Russia the blood." 100% correct. Even the USA doesn't flaunt their valor in combat and their superb military tactics, because it was these "tactics" and this "training" which made the war more complicated than it needed to be. In the end, all the USA had to offer was their industry and weapons. Frankly, neither was needed to defeat Germany.

The general's name was Patten I believe

eventhorizen · Jul 13, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

The German invasion of Russia, and their defeat and retreat, is reckoned to be THE bloodiest and most ruthless conflict. Indeed people speak of it as a series of massacres and not battles.

Russia turned the war, it was practically over by the time the USA got involved, get a clue sometime soon. You make yourself look like a fool.

Yes, I believe it was.

hydrak · Jul 13, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

Also Stalin didnt replace Hitler in Eastern Europe. There were plenty civil wars in many countries, I cant remember the name of the country (tsk) but I do know American and UK soldiers assisted one side in a civil war, because they were the weaker side, but supported the Allies, whilst the other stronger side supported the Axis.

Many, many countries considered themselves 'Germanic', Austria welcomed Hitler through its streets, a great procession and flowers and stuff. I believe Hitler was voted into power, and his people more or less accepted his every word, his every desire.
Hitler, believe it or not, was actually 'wanted' as a leader in many countries. His peoples love of him especially in the early years of war was almost uninimous.

Your lack of knowledge about what you claim is remarkable. You should not speak on a subject if all you have is stereotypes and preconceptions to go on.

Try using facts if you have any.

Stop calling your biased opinions "FACTs".

How is forcing Communism on Eastern Europe different from forcing Fascism on Europe?

eventhorizen · Jul 13, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Stop calling your biased opinions "FACTs".

How is forcing Communism on Eastern Europe different from forcing Fascism on Europe?

For a start these are not 'opinions' there is a videotape of Hitlers 'invasion' of Austria, I believe it gets shown at least once a week on major History TV channels. He drove in to a mass cheering crowd throwing flowers, held a rally where people wept openly, then you see the infamous salute, followed by the mass 'Heil Hitler' from the crowd.

Communism wasnt forced on Russia, it got manipulated by Stalin. Fascism was practically voted into power in Germany, and was WELCOMED by cheering crowds in other places. And in yet still further European countries there were civil wars regarding whos side to take. THESE ARE FACTS. GET A CLUE.

sino-soviet · Jul 13, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

For the people who do not understand events in WWII:

June 6, 1944 - First American attempt to liberate Western Europe from Nazi control. Think of it as their entry into the war in Europe.

February 2, 1943 - Major turning point as the Soviets defeat the Germans and send ~8 million equipped men at an already crushed Germany.

No one is doubting the strength of the USA as a whole; simply put, they were not NEEDED.

To Tippy: The two things go hand in hand, because certain sentiment was aroused and attitudes changed during the time of WWII. I assure you, before WWII, NO ONE had an attitude that Americans were ignorant, sheltered people.

hydrak · Jul 13, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

Many, many countries considered themselves 'Germanic', Austria welcomed Hitler through its streets, a great procession and flowers and stuff. I believe Hitler was voted into power, and his people more or less accepted his every word, his every desire.
.

Don't tell me that this is fact. Name a few more countries besides Austria and Italy.

sino-soviet · Jul 13, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I am not quit sure which countries clearly recognized that they were Germanic, but Austria, Denmark, Belgium, England, Germany, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland are considered Germanic. You have to remember that a country is never unanimous in their support for a leader, but I am positive many people in these "Aryan" countries supported Hitler's views.

PhineasToke · Jul 13, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

An opinion is stated, and the America Firsters break out the flame throwers. This is about a game people, and the opinion stated was about decorum while playing outside of the American zones. Those of you who took it as an attack on your American heritage probably still think French's Mustard is owned by the French and Theresa Heinz-Kerry is plotting to take over the world using psychotrpoic drugs in catsup. Get real and grow up. You've made a perfect case for the original point of this thread.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhineasToke

An opinion is stated, and the America Firsters break out the flame throwers. This is about a game people, and the opinion stated was about decorum while playing outside of the American zones. Those of you who took it as an attack on your American heritage probably still think French's Mustard is owned by the French and Theresa Heinz-Kerry is plotting to take over the world using psychotrpoic drugs in catsup. Get real and grow up. You've made a perfect case for the original point of this thread.

What I said orginaly.

hydrak · Jul 13, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

I am not quit sure which countries clearly recognized that they were Germanic, but Austria, Denmark, Belgium, England, Germany, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland are considered Germanic. You have to remember that a country is never unanimous in their support for a leader, but I am positive many people in these "Aryan" countries supported Hitler's views.

Even if they were considered "Germanic", it didn't mean that they'd welcome Hitler and Fascism as eventhorizen's facts had provided.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 12:29 AM // 00:29

FYI History is my favorite subject along with politics and human psychology. I know a lot about midway and Stalin and WW2. My point in that post had nothing to do with the hisory of WW2 but alot to do with how this thread ended up so very off topic.

If you want WW2 history I would like to mention that the fighting on the Eastern Front was almost over and the germans managed to push all the way to the gates of moscow. Read some of the memoirs of the russian and german generals involved in that fight and both sides stated that the reason the germans lost was two fold: First the germans never counted on the fiercness of the russian soldiers or their willingness to die (this slowed their campaign down drastically), Second the slowing of the campaign lead to it lasting into the russian winter which the german forcs wern't equipped to fight in (having planned and supplied for the campaign to be long over by winter time). America was supplying something like 60% of all the vechiacles and weapons used by the allies. We turned out a tank every 30 miniutes a destroyer per day a b-29 per hour not to mention all of the ammo and guns and other supplies produced in the U.S. On the African front Rommel said that he lost because for every Allied tank that he killed the allies had 2 more to throw at him. His own words were that he lost because of the massive difference in supplies and weaponery between the 2 sides. On the Western front the U.S. had been supplying the weaons to the british for almost all of the war. We didn't send troops in until later but when we did our country was fighting a 2 front war with Japan on one side and Germany on the other. Once we sent troops to europe (That famous D-Day thing. Ever heard of it?) the war on the western front was concluded within 2 months. Both the Russian and American forces met in berlin crushing it between the 2 of them. (What lead to East and West Germany). Then the U.S. went after Japan. According to our agrement with the Russians all lands taken jointly were to be divided between the 2 of them (along with the UK and farnce and 1 other I think) this is what happened in germany. We ended the war with Japan by using 2 nuclear bombs. The reason they were used was because the american presiden't wanted to end this war with as few american causalitys as possible and without Russian help (having seen what happened in germany the americans didn't want the same division in Japan). This use of the nuclear bomb lead into the cold war which I may dicuss later if you want.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

For the people who do not understand events in WWII:

June 6, 1944 - First American attempt to liberate Western Europe from Nazi control. Think of it as their entry into the war in Europe.

February 2, 1943 - Major turning point as the Soviets defeat the Germans and send ~8 million equipped men at an already crushed Germany.

No one is doubting the strength of the USA as a whole; simply put, they were not NEEDED.

To Tippy: The two things go hand in hand, because certain sentiment was aroused and attitudes changed during the time of WWII. I assure you, before WWII, NO ONE had an attitude that Americans were ignorant, sheltered people.

You are partially right but the russian forces were equipped by the americans mostly along with the slight fact that we were keeping Japan from attacking you while your army was marching on berlin.

sino-soviet · Jul 13, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Austria and Italy welcomed it with open arms, as did Switzerland. Switzerland may seem insignificant, but its quite a commercial country. Many facist groups in other countries that I have mentioned existed as well.

EmperorTippy · Jul 13, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Now I am not going to post anymore as this is horribly off topic and I just felt like pointing out that you shouldn't make assumptions about someones intent or knowledge based on less than 30 words. Expecially on a topic this large and complex.

sino-soviet · Jul 13, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

As I said before, the Americans provided the reinforcing funds which helped, but did solely determine, allied victory. And people seem unconcerned with Japan so I left that out. We should continue this in the off-topic thread.